MNSBR: Dctc Preperation - MNSBR

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Dctc Preperation

#16 User is offline   Madchild Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 01:39 PM

View Postnraforevr, on Mar 27 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

Not for HE.

P

same with Ridingcourse.com

Another thing. A lot of people recommend that you take off, tape, or fold down your mirror. Last thing you need to focus on is whose behind you. Its the passing rider to pass safely.
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#17 User is offline   White Space Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

View PostSpooling, on Mar 27 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

Start doing squats and quad work now people! DCTC will make your legs feel like jello by afternoon if you aren't in shape.


+100.

Here's a peek at my list, (not specific to first timers) ..some things that were already mentioned have been omitted, but some of these are only possible if you can drive/trailer the bike.

- Sunscreen. You'll be outside all day and if you don't have a pop-up or know someone with one that you can loiter with, you can get burned. And that HURTS under leathers.

- Chair, bring one if you can. you'll want to sit down, and not on the bike.

- flip-flops to wear over lunch. It feels SO GOOD to take off the riding boots and let your feet breath. (a full change of cloths too can be nice.)

- Bananas, potassium is good when/if you start to cramp up.

- Band-aids. In case you cut yourself trying to inspect, or fix anything on your bike. It happens

- Girls, hair ties or a brush. If you have hair that sticks out of your helmet it will be a NEST by lunch :P

- Fill your tank before you arrive.

- Basic tools.

- Hand sanitizer. Sometimes the Biffs run out by the end of the day. Yuck.

- Sunglasses/hat for in between sessions. Seems obvious, I often forgot.

- Camera/bullet cam if you have one

- Ins. and emergency contact info. God forbid you need it, but you better have it with you.

- pen/paper. For wringing down notes, or things to remember/work on next time.

- Extra levers, shifter. Easiest things to break, and replace to get back for the next session. (speaking from experience, oops.)

- Before each session, think about what you want to be working on. Try not to just go out and toot around.

- Watch (if you don't have a cell phone with a clock), to keep up with how much time you have left till your next session.

-I might be forgetting something off the list.. but that's a good place to start :D :ride:
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#18 G_fifty_one_fifty_*

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:28 PM

View PostWhite Space, on Mar 27 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

+100.

Here's a peek at my list, (not specific to first timers) ..some things that were already mentioned have been omitted, but some of these are only possible if you can drive/trailer the bike.

- Sunscreen. You'll be outside all day and if you don't have a pop-up or know someone with one that you can loiter with, you can get burned. And that HURTS under leathers.

- Chair, bring one if you can. you'll want to sit down, and not on the bike.

- flip-flops to wear over lunch. It feels SO GOOD to take off the riding boots and let your feet breath. (a full change of cloths too can be nice.)

- Bananas, potassium is good when/if you start to cramp up.

- Band-aids. In case you cut yourself trying to inspect, or fix anything on your bike. It happens

- Condoms, that porta potty is a rockin' spot for hookin' up.

- Girls, hair ties or a brush. If you have hair that sticks out of your helmet it will be a NEST by lunch :P

- Fill your tank before you arrive.

- Basic tools.

- Hand sanitizer. Sometimes the Biffs run out by the end of the day. Yuck.

- Sunglasses/hat for in between sessions. Seems obvious, I often forgot.

- Camera/bullet cam if you have one

- Ins. and emergency contact info. God forbid you need it, but you better have it with you.

- pen/paper. For wringing down notes, or things to remember/work on next time.

- Extra levers, shifter. Easiest things to break, and replace to get back for the next session. (speaking from experience, oops.)

- Before each session, think about what you want to be working on. Try not to just go out and toot around.

- Watch (if you don't have a cell phone with a clock), to keep up with how much time you have left till your next session.

-I might be forgetting something off the list.. but that's a good place to start :D :ride:


Great list Chelsea, I only added one thing to it.
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#19 User is offline   White Space Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:53 PM

View Postfifty_one_fifty, on Mar 27 2009, 04:28 PM, said:

Great list Chelsea, I only added one thing to it.


Yuck.
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#20 User is offline   ducdone Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:23 PM

Yah know ive been rockin da streets for years and I dont need no dctc, Im the best out there!


Seriously, drinking plenty of fluids during the days leading up to the event will insure you are properly hydrated.
Its a great learning enviroment, and you can't help learning something new each time you go unless you know everything.
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#21 User is offline   mr_e Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 04:51 PM

H
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#22 User is offline   tall guy Icon

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:05 PM

View Postfifty_one_fifty, on Mar 27 2009, 04:28 PM, said:

Great list Chelsea, I only added one thing to it.
thats where i met anna :bolt:
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#23 User is offline   darren Icon

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:56 AM

View Postvoss555, on Mar 27 2009, 01:54 PM, said:

+1

Thanks Darren-

Figuring out you how much you suck is great! It's the living with it daily part that's hard...


Glad I could point out your suckitude, Billy! ;)

Seriously, come with an open mind and a willingness to learn and try new and different things that you may have never considered before, and you will get your money's worth in spades!

And for those of you who haven't been unfortunate enough to sit through my :blahblah:, relax and be SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!

And as a complete and seemingly unrelated aside, I really recommend the book "Tao of Pooh" by Benjamin Hoff. It won't make you a better rider for reading it, but it might do a good deal in getting your mind prepped for the experience! :thumbup:
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#24 User is offline   that_dude Icon

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 09:09 AM

View PostMadchild, on Mar 27 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

Generally speaking on an ideal day. 30-32 front, 28-30 rear on street dots.


Will someone please help me understand this as I am a bit confused? (Total Control by Parks does not address specific pressures nor does Sport Riding Techniques by Ienatsch).

My owner's manual calls for for tyre (tire) pressure at the front to be 2.1 bar (or 30.5 psi by my calculations), and the rear to be at 2.2 bar (or 31.9 psi which I round to 32 psi).

So for an advance riders course I would ride the front tire within manufactures specification, and my rear would be running lower than manufacturing specifications, thereby the rear tire is running at a lower psi than the the front which is opposite of the manufacturer's specifications.

Why this tire pressure recommendation for a riders course?

And does this tire pressure recommendation then transfer to the street pressure as well, especially seeing the skills are transferable to the street in emergency situations and are opposite of the manufacture's specifications?

Thank you in advance for helpful answers or reputable internet hyperlinks on the subject.

Signed in earnest,
Seriously Confused Pro-detail Dude
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#25 User is offline   Madchild Icon

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:49 AM

View Postthat_dude, on Mar 28 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Will someone please help me understand this as I am a bit confused? (Total Control by Parks does not address specific pressures nor does Sport Riding Techniques by Ienatsch).

My owner's manual calls for for tyre (tire) pressure at the front to be 2.1 bar (or 30.5 psi by my calculations), and the rear to be at 2.2 bar (or 31.9 psi which I round to 32 psi).

So for an advance riders course I would ride the front tire within manufactures specification, and my rear would be running lower than manufacturing specifications, thereby the rear tire is running at a lower psi than the the front which is opposite of the manufacturer's specifications.

Why this tire pressure recommendation for a riders course?

And does this tire pressure recommendation then transfer to the street pressure as well, especially seeing the skills are transferable to the street in emergency situations and are opposite of the manufacture's specifications?

Thank you in advance for helpful answers or reputable internet hyperlinks on the subject.

Signed in earnest,
Seriously Confused Pro-detail Dude

I think I may have it mixed up (Darren please chime in so I can fix my original post). I'm no tire expert. All I know is that the michelin I was on last year was 29-30 front 22 in the rear.
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#26 User is offline   darren Icon

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:49 AM

I'll take this one. :thumbup:

The air in the tire does two things: gives structural strength to the tire and cools the tire.

The "ideal", at least in terms of traction and performance (maintaining the proper pliability/rigidity, i.e. not riding on a hockey puck or a marshmallow) should give you hot pressures of about 34psi.

The greater volume of air in the rear tire will obviously dissipate more heat through the greater surface area of the rear wheel than will the much smaller volume of air in the front. Increasing pressure (adding more physical air) increases the ability of the tire to shed excess heat into the wheel and thus maintain the traction/performance level you're looking for.

The "recommended pressures" from your bike manufacturer are generally designed around tire longevity...hence why some bikes I've seen actually call for 42psi (and people have shown up at DCTC with their tires filled that hard and had a shitty time slipping and sliding all over the place). I even had one bike come over complaining about traction that had over 50psi in the rear tire! :Scared:

My personal recommendation when I spoon on tires for street riding is to run them at 32psi front and rear, or bumping the rear up to 34psi if carrying passengers (again, the same logic applies: you have a greater load creating greater friction and heat, and the added air will shed the additional heat more effectively).

As far as track vs. street, personally, I'd rather go through a few sets of tires and know i've got the traction than bump my pressures up to preserve tire life and sacrifice traction. The closer you get to the ragged edge, the more critical having pressures appropriate for the conditions become (as well as having a suspension that is doing its half of the job...a suspension that isn't performing for the conditions will require even greater performance from the tires, increasing their wear and decreasing their ability to absorb that n'th more performance when you need it (which fingers crossed doesn't lead you to bin it).

So...in summary, the pressure you *should* be running is dictated by the conditions you'll be riding under, the level of performance you intend to demand from your tires, and the load on the tires. There's not one *magical* number that will work ideally in all conditions and all demands, so use the pressure recommendations as baselines to begin fine-tuning your pressures as conditions change.

Hope this clears things up for ya...or maybe I just stirred up more mud, who knows? :duno:
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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:17 PM

I really appreciate the detailed explanation, thank you Darren.

I am not sure how this affects the OP's recommendation. However, I am understanding that track (read:race) and street tire pressures are two different things. For the purposes of advanced rider training session for street skills (the riding classes are not about lap times), I am leaning toward riding a tire pressure that is very close to what I would run on the street(considering Darren's last paragraph), so that my understanding and feel of my tire performance is consistent. Unless I am still not getting it...

Anyway this is good for me to take the time to better understand now, so that my attention can be focused on skills learning when I am going through training.

I wonder if a sticky on tire pressures (darren's post) would be appropriate and useful to forum members?



Quote

The "ideal", at least in terms of traction and performance (maintaining the proper pliability/rigidity, i.e. not riding on a hockey puck or a marshmallow) should give you hot pressures of about 34psi.


So are the tire compounds (DOT's?) are designed to run optimally at a certain temperature and that equates to 34psi hot? I am thinking yes, but see my last sentence.

Quote

The greater volume of air in the rear tire will obviously dissipate more heat through the greater surface area of the rear wheel than will the much smaller volume of air in the front. Increasing pressure (adding more physical air) increases the ability of the tire to shed excess heat into the wheel and thus maintain the traction/performance level you're looking for.


Damn it, this sounds like physics :bankhead:
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#28 User is offline   darren Icon

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 02:46 PM

View Postthat_dude, on Mar 28 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

I really appreciate the detailed explanation, thank you Darren.

I am not sure how this affects the OP's recommendation. However, I am understanding that track (read:race) and street tire pressures are two different things. For the purposes of advanced rider training session for street skills (the riding classes are not about lap times), I am leaning toward riding a tire pressure that is very close to what I would run on the street(considering Darren's last paragraph), so that my understanding and feel of my tire performance is consistent. Unless I am still not getting it...

Anyway this is good for me to take the time to better understand now, so that my attention can be focused on skills learning when I am going through training.

I wonder if a sticky on tire pressures (darren's post) would be appropriate and useful to forum members?

So are the tire compounds (DOT's?) are designed to run optimally at a certain temperature and that equates to 34psi hot? I am thinking yes, but see my last sentence.

Damn it, this sounds like physics :bankhead:


It's not so much the difference between track & street, it's about the conditions you're riding under and the performance you're trying to squeeze out of the bike. As you stated, race tires and street tires are designed to work under different conditions and stresses so what works for one won't necessarily work for another. If it's a cold day with cloudy skies, you lower your tire pressures to get more heat in the tires; hot sunny days you bump your pressures up to keep the tires from overheating and getting greasy.

I would still recommend "track pressures" for first-timers at DCTC. There's a lot to try and absorb in a short day, and having tires that stick is one less thing to be worrying about while trying to stack all the skills we drill. When you go back to the street, you can try the "new" pressures and gradually work them to where you'd like them to be and experience the differences in traction and tire wear.

The 34psi is more or less a "rule of thumb". Truly what is important is the temperature range of the tire and adjusting pressures to keep your tire in that range...but most people aren't going to be carrying a pyrometer with them.

Again, unless you're approaching the ragged edge, a couple of pounds either way isn't going to affect your traction too terribly, though you might be quite surprised at how much tire wear it affects.

The important thing is to show up with decent tires in decent condition (or have made arrangements to get decent tires :hmm2: :P ) and let the learning begin! :thumbup:
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Posted 28 March 2009 - 07:21 PM

Lower pressure also allows the tire to "flex" more.

With reduced pressure, a tire will deflect more from it's roundish shape at the point of contact with the track (or road) surface. More deflection equals more contact patch. More contact patch equals more traction.

The additional flex also creates more friction within the tire material; especially the tread. More friction equals more heat. Heat tends to soften rubber which can increase traction - assuming you stay below the temperature where things start to melt and get greasy.

Everyone's situation is a little different. Equipment, riding style, pace, etc. Start with good advice (which MadChild and Darren have offered) and then experiment with your pressures to find the right set-up for your particular combination of factors.
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#30 User is offline   that_dude Icon

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:03 AM

It is becoming clearer for me now, especially the track pressures and moving slowly once back on the street based on preferences and conditions *one cog clicked slowly in my head* :lol: Thanks again for helping me understand.


View Postdarren, on Mar 28 2009, 03:46 PM, said:

It's not so much the difference between track & street, it's about the conditions you're riding under and the performance you're trying to squeeze out of the bike. As you stated, race tires and street tires are designed to work under different conditions and stresses so what works for one won't necessarily work for another. If it's a cold day with cloudy skies, you lower your tire pressures to get more heat in the tires; hot sunny days you bump your pressures up to keep the tires from overheating and getting greasy.

I would still recommend "track pressures" for first-timers at DCTC. There's a lot to try and absorb in a short day, and having tires that stick is one less thing to be worrying about while trying to stack all the skills we drill. When you go back to the street, you can try the "new" pressures and gradually work them to where you'd like them to be and experience the differences in traction and tire wear.

The 34psi is more or less a "rule of thumb". Truly what is important is the temperature range of the tire and adjusting pressures to keep your tire in that range...but most people aren't going to be carrying a pyrometer with them.

Again, unless you're approaching the ragged edge, a couple of pounds either way isn't going to affect your traction too terribly, though you might be quite surprised at how much tire wear it affects.

The important thing is to show up with decent tires in decent condition (or have made arrangements to get decent tires :hmm2: :P ) and let the learning begin! :thumbup:

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