MNSBR: Tube AND tubeless - MNSBR

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Tube AND tubeless not a comparison

#1 User is offline   Turner Icon

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:15 PM

Theres tubeless tires and tube tires...

I'm looking for input on doing both

and by both I mean;

Using a tubeless designated tire, with and inner tube, and having both inflated at 30-35 psi/separately.
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#2 User is offline   Champ Icon

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Posted 02 January 2019 - 02:21 PM

Not sure what it would accomplish - and you'd have to drill a second hole into the wheel casting (for the tube's valve) and somehow seal that from the tubeless portion's pressure so it didn't leak out.

What do you think you'd gain by doing this?
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#3 User is offline   Jim Icon

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:31 AM

Belt and suspenders?

One of the advantages of tubeless tires is that there was no longer a tube to chafe against the inside of the tire. This chafing inevitably caused a temperature rise.

I have no doubt the rubber formulation of tubeless tires is optimized with the idea there will be no chafing (hence, no temperance rise from this source).
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#4 User is offline   re tired Icon

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

View PostJim Hubert, on 03 January 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

Belt and suspenders?




Or is it 'jumping as the elevator stops'?

I don't think you can do both. If you have an empty tube in a tubeless tire, inflate the tubeless tire to 35psi, then try to inflate the tube, you'd go well over 35psi before you got the tube inflated. Hmmm...?

Interesting, brain freeze.
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Posted 03 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

If each were inflated to the same PSI, the innertube would not really be inflated at all. Same as it would be in normal atmospheric pressure sitting on a self with no valve stem core. If it had any pressure greater than the surrounding pressure, then it would start to inflate into a smooth non-squished tube.

I'm also curious where this is going...
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Posted 03 January 2019 - 10:57 AM

I know on mtb tires you run Stans or orange seal in case of a flat. Could you just run Green Slime or would that throw the balance off on the tire?
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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:05 AM

View PostChamp, on 02 January 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

Not sure what it would accomplish - and you'd have to drill a second hole into the wheel casting (for the tube's valve) and somehow seal that from the tubeless portion's pressure so it didn't leak out.

What do you think you'd gain by doing this?


Having only a tube is prone to expelling all the air from the tire at once. A tubeless tire seems like the better option for the sake of a slow leak with a puncture, less rotational weight, and no chafing.

View Postre tired, on 03 January 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

Or is it 'jumping as the elevator stops'?

I don't think you can do both. If you have an empty tube in a tubeless tire, inflate the tubeless tire to 35psi, then try to inflate the tube, you'd go well over 35psi before you got the tube inflated. Hmmm...?

Interesting, brain freeze.


Inflating the outer carcas (first) to 35 p.s.i. then inflating the tube to 35 p.s.i. would create an additional pressure between the inner and outer. (Inner tire size/ diameter/ volume displacement/ outer tire volume/ ummm math??) I was thinking inflating the inner tube first to 33psi, then the outer tubeless tire to 35 psi, creating a 2 psi difference at temperature as an extra coushin over rough spots. (The suspension on the bike should start to compress before this comes into effect.)

View PostVrooom, on 03 January 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

I know on mtb tires you run Stans or orange seal in case of a flat. Could you just run Green Slime or would that throw the balance off on the tire?



no slime just to avoid any type of chemical in and around the tire.

Brings me to the idea of ice-screws inserted in the outer tube. How do these guys run without losing air and hundreds of puncture spots?

(For the record, I'm getting me some D404s, rim strips, and calling it a day.)
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Posted 07 January 2019 - 09:03 AM

View PostTurner, on 07 January 2019 - 12:05 AM, said:

Brings me to the idea of ice-screws inserted in the outer tube. How do these guys run without losing air and hundreds of puncture spots?


They use a backing material of some kind underneath the studs/screws. This has two purposes, it can give the screws more substance to bite into and also protects the innertube from screw/stud punctures. They do use innertubes, but they do not inflate the tubeless tire, only the inner tube.

Some guys will cut an old street tire to remove the side walls and use the center tread as an insert to the ice tire for backing material to sink screws into and a buffer for the inner tube.
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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostPOE, on 07 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

They use a backing material of some kind underneath the studs/screws. This has two purposes, it can give the screws more substance to bite into and also protects the innertube from screw/stud punctures. They do use innertubes, but they do not inflate the tubeless tire, only the inner tube.

Some guys will cut an old street tire to remove the side walls and use the center tread as an insert to the ice tire for backing material to sink screws into and a buffer for the inner tube.


There is also a 3rd purpose to the extra rubber inside the tire. Extra rotating mass, it keeps the bike more stable sliding around the corners. Flat track guys will add wheel weights inside the rim to accomplish this.
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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:18 PM

Ah, cool, I did not know that.
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Posted 07 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

View PostPOE, on 07 January 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ah, cool, I did not know that.


I don't think adding wheel weights is AMA legal though, lol. There is definitely a maximum wheel weight for flat tracking because heavier wheels do offer an advantage.
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