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Rules forums scheduled

#1 User is offline   CRA Webmaster Icon

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

If you have any rules you’d like to propose for the 2018 season, this is your chance!

September 13th
September 27th
October 18th

Starts at 7pm.

These will be held at the Davanni’s in Plymouth, off highway 55 and 494. 3015 Harbor Lane N, Plymouth, MN 55447



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Posted 21 August 2017 - 10:45 AM

Slicks in Super Sport ;)
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#3 User is offline   Champ Icon

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:24 AM

Tonight!
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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:31 AM

 POE, on 21 August 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

Slicks in Super Sport ;)


Is this something anyone else still wants? I can't make it tonight, but I still want it to be discussed. I think the downfalls that are brought up against it are not road blocks at all.
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#5 User is offline   Champ Icon

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:50 AM

 POE, on 13 September 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

Is this something anyone else still wants? I can't make it tonight, but I still want it to be discussed. I think the downfalls that are brought up against it are not road blocks at all.

It's always been something I've wanted, would love to get rid of 2 sets of wheels!

There was some talk going around about changing the SS portion of at least LW, maybe turn it more into how we have ultralight. Superbike throughout all.
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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:24 PM

 Champ, on 13 September 2017 - 08:50 AM, said:

It's always been something I've wanted, would love to get rid of 2 sets of wheels!

There was some talk going around about changing the SS portion of at least LW, maybe turn it more into how we have ultralight. Superbike throughout all.


My only concern about going SB across-the-board for LW is losing some of that easy barrier to entry that LW is good for. Just allowing slicks in SS would make LW easier to get into for new riders, not having to worry about having extra wheels. Going to SB rules for all races would add complexity to entering with a competitive bike. But once the bike is built, that would make everything really simple. Plus, going all SB would add to one aspect I really like about the LW class, and that's having an even playing field. It's one of the big reasons a lot of racers liked N250 spec class.
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#7 User is online   crakerjac Icon

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:38 PM

Would that make the USD forks on my SV legal?
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:53 AM

View Postcrakerjac, on 13 September 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Would that make the USD forks on my SV legal?

You're USD forks are legal in LW SB, LW GP, and SuperTwins.

If what people are talking about happens, LW SS would just become LW SB #2, so you could get an extra race.
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:05 AM

I've been thinking about getting rid of LW SS and I'm not sure I like it. Going SB as the base class would make a scenario where, to be competitive, LW racers will need to put a lot of money into their bikes and blurs the line between LW and MW by having higher speed/power but shittier chassis. In my mind, it will erase the biggest benefit of racing LW, tire costs and increase rider risk with faster race speeds on a sub optimal street chassis. It will make engines more unreliable and bike builds more expensive.

As much as I would like the bike uniformity in LW, I think this would make for more discrepancies between bikes due to people having a wider range of builds. I think this will ultimately cause less competition in the class.

I'm thinking that allowing slick tires in LW SS is the better option and keep the class structure unchanged otherwise.
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:22 AM

View PostPOE, on 14 September 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

I've been thinking about getting rid of LW SS and I'm not sure I like it. Going SB as the base class would make a scenario where, to be competitive, LW racers will need to put a lot of money into their bikes and blurs the line between LW and MW by having higher speed/power but shittier chassis. In my mind, it will erase the biggest benefit of racing LW, tire costs and increase rider risk with faster race speeds on a sub optimal street chassis. It will make engines more unreliable and bike builds more expensive.

As much as I would like the bike uniformity in LW, I think this would make for more discrepancies between bikes due to people having a wider range of builds. I think this will ultimately cause less competition in the class.

I'm thinking that allowing slick tires in LW SS is the better option and keep the class structure unchanged otherwise.

Slicks in LW SS and change LW SB to LW SS #2?
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:35 AM

View PostChamp, on 14 September 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Slicks in LW SS and change LW SB to LW SS #2?


SB would still be SB, built motors and all the goodies that offers. SS would still be SS rules with slick tires.

I will say that I don't know much about SB rules. Do slick tires really make much of a difference making SS similar to SB? I can't imagine it would. There's engine mods and suspension/chassis mods that could make a big difference. Champ, how much power were you getting with those mods you ran in July?
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:17 AM

View PostPOE, on 14 September 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

SB would still be SB, built motors and all the goodies that offers. SS would still be SS rules with slick tires.

I will say that I don't know much about SB rules. Do slick tires really make much of a difference making SS similar to SB? I can't imagine it would. There's engine mods and suspension/chassis mods that could make a big difference. Champ, how much power were you getting with those mods you ran in July?

It was ~6 extra HP over normal, and was worth about 1.2s on track (compared to my best time on slicks). I'm sure it's worth 2-3s on the big track.
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:07 AM

If they went SB rules, that doesn't mean your bike has to be a SB. None of my bikes were SB and I raced them in those, and higher classes.

Just because a limit is raised doesn't mean your bike has to be at the top. If it goes to SB rules, that's cool, I can sell a set of wheels. But I'm not going to put money into the motor. Will I be less competitive? Yes. Will I still have fun? Yes. Do you care that much if your bike has maximum horsepower for club racing?
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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:27 AM

View PostChamp, on 14 September 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

It was ~6 extra HP over normal, and was worth about 1.2s on track (compared to my best time on slicks). I'm sure it's worth 2-3s on the big track.

Not as high as I thought. But SB builds can more than that, right?

View Posthenks, on 14 September 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

If they went SB rules, that doesn't mean your bike has to be a SB. None of my bikes were SB and I raced them in those, and higher classes.

Just because a limit is raised doesn't mean your bike has to be at the top. If it goes to SB rules, that's cool, I can sell a set of wheels. But I'm not going to put money into the motor. Will I be less competitive? Yes. Will I still have fun? Yes. Do you care that much if your bike has maximum horsepower for club racing?


This is why I care.

View PostPOE, on 14 September 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

I think this would make for more discrepancies between bikes due to people having a wider range of builds. I think this will ultimately cause less competition in the class.


I could do SB mods if I want, I'm not very concerned about myself. I'd rather not though. I'm concerned about the LW class. One reason I was okay with not racing the last 2 years, other than saving money, is that I wasn't competing against anyone after Dave Pederson stopped racing. Jon was out front and I was alone chasing his shadow. The closer I can be to elbow-to-elbow racing, the more fun I will have. And making it possible for more discrepancies in bikes, I think, will make for less competition and a higher barrier to new riders.

Can someone tell me what other benefits are to substituting SS with SB2? I know for veterans/experts it will likely be a lot of similar builds, I would likely be in that group. But, I'm concerned about raising the barrier to entry for new racers. LW has always been a very welcoming and easy class for new riders. I'd hate to raise the bar in fear it would scare away any potential racers. For those that are already racing it's easy to say you're okay with SB2, you've already gone through being a new rider and buying the bike and all the gear that racing requires. Think of it from a new rider perspective. "If I enter LW, there's going to be riders with faster bikes than me. It'll cost more money to compete with those guys." And don't say that new riders will be okay with that. They won't. Who wants to start an exciting sport like road racing with a disadvantage? I know I wouldn't have. I did great my first year. If that would have been overshadowed by guys with faster bikes I would have been frustrated and not nearly as happy and I wouldn't have had as much fun.


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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:31 AM

I see no negative with allowing Slicks in LW SS. But please enlighten me if there are negatives I'm not remembering.

"IF" there was a shortage of 160 or 165 slicks, then that's tough, but then it's to the benefit of those that order first that get the tires. Similar to how we get our grid spots in Pre Reg. Once slicks are gone it's DOTs for the rest. That won't be the end of the world and it would create less difference in competitive advantage than the difference between an SS build and and SB build. I've had plenty of weekends that my slicks got me the same lap times as DOTs.
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