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Tesla cars ?

#1 User is offline   aj_day Icon

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 03:27 PM

What do you all think of Tesla cars? How many have driven one on the street, at the track? Which model(s)? I know there is a shit ton of political / talking point BS out there when it comes to Elon Musk, stock performance, validity of predictions, etc... I am not interested in that. What do you think about the actual car(s) and how they drive?
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#2 User is offline   Jim Icon

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 05:43 PM

You could say I'm "electric vehicle curious" and have done quite a bit of research on them. I know one local guy who has one, but I've never even ridden in it much less driven it. When a nephew was looking to replace his 7-series BMW, he considered a Tesla but said it was no luxury car even though it is priced like one.

I think Minnesota winters would be a problem with range being only 2/3 that of in the summertime.

For me, an owner not being permitted to buy repair parts from Tesla is a non-starter. See Massachusetts right to repair act: https://www.youtube....h?v=kETN3N2tGLw

Here are some other good videos:

Reverse engineering a Model 3: https://www.youtube....h?v=Lj1a8rdX6DU

Rich Rebuilds Channel: https://www.youtube....G8KJADuZT2ct4SA
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#3 User is offline   miweber929 Icon

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 07:35 PM

I rented 2 Tesla's for a work project a year or so ago, a decked out 85d and I think the second was a standard 85.

It was cool, it was fun but didn't blow me away like I thought a $100,000 car would (the d had the window sticker in the glove box). The biggest things I loved were the huge touch screen for controls, the great dash layout and the real leather seats. Honestly after driving it around I thought a higher end BMW, Lexus, Mercedes or the like would be just as cool and would have just as big of a thrill.

A couple other guys drove it, some loved it but most of the guys were just as disappointed as I was.

Drive one, they offer great test rides, and decide for yourself.
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#4 User is offline   crakerjac Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:25 AM

Never looked twice at a Tesla until I saw someone open that batwing door on the Tesla SUV... I was like a kid looking at big fake tits for the first time. Torque from an electric motor would be cool at the track, but I've never actually driven one.
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#5 User is offline   antimatter Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 01:14 PM

Does the cost of ownership make it worth it versus a high-performance thermic engine?
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#6 User is offline   POE Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 03:01 PM

 antimatter, on 04 June 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

Does the cost of ownership make it worth it versus a high-performance thermic engine?


I would imagine the cost differential would be fairly straight forward. Cost of 100k minus plus fuel and maintenance. When talking about $100k cars, the fuel isn't a big factor on that budget.

$100,000 Electric car over 5 years @ 3.5% = $1,819/mo or 21,828/year (minus any govt subsidies if they still do that.)
At an electricity cost of 4¢ per mile, that's about $540/year in electricity. But because of limited range and fueling stations annual mileage would be much lower than average.
Total = $22,368 per year ($1,864/month)

$100,000 Gas car over 5 years @ 3.5% = $1,819/mo or 21,828/year
A Jaguar F-Type annual maintenance is $1,441/year
With average miles and fuel cost (very similar MPGs to national avg mentioned below) the total cost of annual ownership would be:
Total = $24,701 ($2,058/month)

If it was me answering your question, I would say the difference is not that much of a deal breaker. If I'm spending that much on a car per year, I'd be fine buying gas, hearing my tuned exhaust, changing oil, and having the convenience of gas stations on every corner for the additional $194/month. Not to mention the ability to buy and replace parts on my own. I didn't know Tesla won't sell replacement parts. That's not cool.



Additional info on average US vehicles:

AAA says $8,500/year is average cost of ownership across all makes/models in the US.

My Google findings on key metrics for the Avg vehicle in the USA:
A car payment for an avg financed vehicle is $530/mo, or $6,360/yr.
+Gas cost at national avg of 26.4mpg, avg price of $2.80/gal, and nat'l avg of 13,500 miles/yr = $1,432/yr
+Average vehicle maintenance/year = $600
= Total of $8,392
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#7 User is offline   mike4king Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 06:39 PM

View PostPOE, on 04 June 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

If I'm spending that much on a car per year, I'd be fine buying gas, hearing my tuned exhaust, changing oil, ...



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#8 User is offline   POE Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 07:01 PM

 mike4king, on 04 June 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:



:lol2:

Totally different price range hahaha
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#9 User is offline   ripperd Icon

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 10:07 PM

 POE, on 04 June 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

I would imagine the cost differential would be fairly straight forward. Cost of 100k minus plus fuel and maintenance. When talking about $100k cars, the fuel isn't a big factor on that budget.

$100,000 Electric car over 5 years @ 3.5% = $1,819/mo or 21,828/year (minus any govt subsidies if they still do that.)
At an electricity cost of 4 per mile, that's about $540/year in electricity. But because of limited range and fueling stations annual mileage would be much lower than average.
Total = $22,368 per year ($1,864/month)

$100,000 Gas car over 5 years @ 3.5% = $1,819/mo or 21,828/year
A Jaguar F-Type annual maintenance is $1,441/year
With average miles and fuel cost (very similar MPGs to national avg mentioned below) the total cost of annual ownership would be:
Total = $24,701 ($2,058/month)

If it was me answering your question, I would say the difference is not that much of a deal breaker. If I'm spending that much on a car per year, I'd be fine buying gas, hearing my tuned exhaust, changing oil, and having the convenience of gas stations on every corner for the additional $194/month. Not to mention the ability to buy and replace parts on my own. I didn't know Tesla won't sell replacement parts. That's not cool.



Additional info on average US vehicles:

AAA says $8,500/year is average cost of ownership across all makes/models in the US.

My Google findings on key metrics for the Avg vehicle in the USA:
A car payment for an avg financed vehicle is $530/mo, or $6,360/yr.
+Gas cost at national avg of 26.4mpg, avg price of $2.80/gal, and nat'l avg of 13,500 miles/yr = $1,432/yr
+Average vehicle maintenance/year = $600
= Total of $8,392


Resale and depreciation will trump pretty much all those figures when contemplating total cost of ownership.
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#10 User is offline   Torchsport Icon

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:53 AM

I wonder if insurance rates are relative...
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#11 User is offline   Jim Icon

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 06:12 AM

First hit from searching "Tesla insurance cost": https://www.valuepen...a-car-insurance

Quote

Teslas are more expensive to insure than many luxury cars due to their high repair costs, which increases the cost of collision coverage.

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#12 User is offline   Kent Larson Icon

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:30 AM

I did the same cost comparison on a Zero bike vs. my WR250.
After test riding the Zero, I decided I get way more than $12 extra fun per week having the clutch and sound and gears and wheelies on the WR. The Zero was just boring.
($.01/mile electric vs. $.05/mile gas, 300 miles/week)
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Posted 05 June 2019 - 10:50 AM

It'll be interesting to see what kind of tech finally makes electric worth while. The hassle and initial cost of electric just isn't there yet. Especially with the heavier weight on motorcycles. It's a big impact.
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Posted 05 June 2019 - 12:10 PM

That brings up another topic. When will any of the fancy battery tech hit the market that we've been hearing about for decades? My guess is never, because it's too sustainable and too efficient to make gobs of money from them.

Lithium Sulfur - ETA at least 5 years. But my guess is they will be benched as long as possible.
Solid State - ETA: Should be available now, but for some reason they are not.
Nano-wire - No ETA
Graphene - ETA is all over the place. Grabat Company has already produced some batteries but I'm curious if they'll mysteriously run into lots of red tape. This tech would be a massive change to the battery industry and I hope it comes sooner than later.
Micro Supercapacitors - I like these things. They are like the A-10 Warthogs of batteries. Currently very expensive, but manufacturing is being refined and will cost less "eventually".
Foam - Big promise. No tangible release date
Aluminum-Air - Just saw this one as I was googling for more examples. Pretty cool concept and I'll have to research more later.
Dual-Carbon - Made in same Li-Ion factories. Safer and cheaper materials. Bigger capacity and charge times. I don't see them on the shelves, do you?
Magnesium Crystal - Pretty new yet, but could be a great option if figured out.

There's many more. But you get the point. The tech for many of these has been around for a long long time. Just seems like nothing ever makes it to market.
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#15 User is offline   antimatter Icon

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 01:48 PM

I doubt that's a great conspiracy - rather, the market is waiting for someone to step up and actually invent the thing in a sustainable fashion. That company will then be acquired by one of the big vehicle manufacturers, probably after a bidding war.

That's the way things work in today's Venture Capital driven world. You wait for some start-up to perfect something you want, then you fire enough of your workers so you can acquire the start-up without too much loss on your balance sheet. No one wants to actually do R&D. They all want to buy Google at $5/share, then have it go up ten-fold in 6 months so it can be sold for a quick buck.
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