MNSBR: Sam's motorcycle winter storage procedure - MNSBR

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Sam's motorcycle winter storage procedure What I do & why

#16 User is offline   manofthefield Icon

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:04 PM

View PostCory06R6S, on Oct 22 2006, 06:47 PM, said:

How important is changing the oil before winter and if you do, are you good for next year i have heard people say change oil before storage and when you take it out. i have also heard dont do it till you take it out but it seems more important to do it before


I'd say it's pretty important to change the oil before winter to get rid of the acids from combustion as mentioned above. I've also heard to change the oil again in the spring, but this is less important. I've always changed oil before winter and just checked it over and rode it in the spring
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#17 User is offline   Dan B Icon

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:16 PM

View Postcra_fizzer, on Oct 22 2006, 06:44 PM, said:

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan B @ Oct 22 2006, 11:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Just a side note:
If you do fog your cylinders make sure to put anti-seize on the spark plug threads before you put them back in the bike. Most modern sport bikes have aluminum heads and since the sparkplugs are steel rust/oxidation can be a big issue.

It's not actually rust but electrolysis. Aluminum vs steel.

This is why I hate monster cables as well. They are gold plated, most stereos are not.


If you want to get real technical about it the name of the "process" is galvanic corrosion and it's not electrolysis.

Enjoy these links...

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Electrolysis
http://en.wikipedia....vanic_corrosion

Also, I am uncertain as to how big the risk actually is that your plugs will corrode but anti-seize compound is cheap and it doesn't take much extra time to use it. I have heard a number of people claim to have issues with spark plugs that have been in left in heads for extended periods of time.

edited for links.
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#18 User is offline   fasttalon94 Icon

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:31 PM

I think i am going to nominate Sam Farris for a nobel peace prize or some shit! This man has personally helped me out before with some tech questions, and now he's helping us all out.

my man.
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#19 User is offline   nOOky Icon

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:22 PM

I concur with Sam, I just do mine in a slightly different order. I change oil and filter, check the tires etc. I then wash the bike, ride it enough to get it hot (maybe 20 miles) then fill it with gas (and seafoam) and get the chain warmed up. Ride it home fully fueled and wax it, lube the chain, then take the battery out and put her on the stands. An old bed sheet over the top and nighty night.
(By the way I never do not run a cycle after I wash it, do that too long and you'll find the water that pools around the spark plugs and boots will give ya problems down the line.)
Carb cleaning and general lubing etc. is done in the spring.
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#20 User is offline   Cory06R6S Icon

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 11:48 PM

Any more input on how important it is to change oil again in the spring?
P.S. Sam is a genuis
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#21 User is offline   Sam Farris Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 05:58 AM

B)-->
QUOTE(Dan B @ Oct 22 2006, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you want to get real technical about it the name of the "process" is galvanic corrosion and it's not electrolysis.
[/quote]

Bingo!!

I knew there was another name for it, but it just wouldn't come to me; must be 'oldtimers' setting in!

Thanks Dan

Sam
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#22 G_vile_*

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 01:38 PM

View PostSam Farris, on Oct 22 2006, 06:36 PM, said:

I assume you are referencing the 10-minutes of running to circulate the oil and stabilizer? If so, a rather small point, wouldn't you agree? In the big picture, 10-minutes of running generates how much acid? The idea here is to minimize these chemical reaction effects. I think I mention that more than once. Total elimination is impossible.


to add on to that:

good motorcycle oils contain a lot of acid neutralizers. when the oil is new, there is an ample amount of neutralizers to prevent the oil from
becoming acidic. when the oil is old, these neutralizers are significantly reduced and the oil can easily become acidic, especially during storage.

running the bike for 10 minutes after an oil change does not reduce the acid neutrality of the oil by a significant amount from new.

and...

no need to change the oil in the spring after having changed it before winter storage.
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#23 G_J.P._*

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:13 PM

So, your 99 R1 is carbureted, right Sam? Do you drain your float bowls, or let the stabilizer circulate through the fuel and eventually assume that there is stabilizer in the float bowls as well?

I only ask, because last ride out I put stabilizer in my tank before I went, and then topped it off with fuel right before I parked it and added a little more stabilizer... I would like to avoid draining my float bowls if possible, saving some time during winterizing the bike. (Plus, I live in an apartment and they frown upon oil changing or anything of the sort in the underground garage where the bike is going to be stored.)

Also, are you using Sta-Bil or Sea Foam as your stabilizer? I'm using Sea Foam for my stabilizer this time around...
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#24 User is offline   Crash Inc. Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:25 PM

I see there are a couple of us 'tards that like to ride year round... So, here's one Sam, just looking for suggestions... I make it a point to put on at least 40 miles every couple weeks through the winter, I should have the bike back together enough to actually do that (and a New Years ride) ... would you make any recommendations for 'semi-winterizing' ... for those of us that are dumb enough to ride every time the mercury dips above 0 and the roads are relatively snow/ice free?
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#25 User is offline   BurnoutBusa Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:52 PM

I park it in it's spot and turn the key off.. Come spring time i turn the key on, change oil and go. Done it this way forever. Just finally had to put a new battery in this summer, it was 6 yrs old. :duno:
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#26 User is offline   Sam Farris Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:27 PM

View PostJ.P., on Oct 23 2006, 04:13 PM, said:

So, your 99 R1 is carbureted, right Sam? Do you drain your float bowls, or let the stabilizer circulate through the fuel and eventually assume that there is stabilizer in the float bowls as well?

I only ask, because last ride out I put stabilizer in my tank before I went, and then topped it off with fuel right before I parked it and added a little more stabilizer... I would like to avoid draining my float bowls if possible, saving some time during winterizing the bike. (Plus, I live in an apartment and they frown upon oil changing or anything of the sort in the underground garage where the bike is going to be stored.)

Also, are you using Sta-Bil or Sea Foam as your stabilizer? I'm using Sea Foam for my stabilizer this time around...


I have found that the 15-minutes of total running time is sufficient to get the stabilizer into the bowls. Back in the day before I ran a stabilizer I would shut-off the fuel tank valve and drain the bowls. I haven't drained a bowl in years. Now smokin' a bowl is a different story! J/K!! :craz:

Historically I've had good luck with Sta-bil. I buy it from Fleet Farm in the 1-qt. poly squeeze container. I like the convenience of the built-in measurement 'vile'. I run stabilized-gas all year-round in all my household power equipment. It really makes things a lot easier come fall/winter.

Sam
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#27 User is offline   Sam Farris Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:42 PM

View PostCrash Inc., on Oct 23 2006, 04:25 PM, said:

I see there are a couple of us 'tards that like to ride year round... So, here's one Sam, just looking for suggestions... I make it a point to put on at least 40 miles every couple weeks through the winter, I should have the bike back together enough to actually do that (and a New Years ride) ... would you make any recommendations for 'semi-winterizing' ... for those of us that are dumb enough to ride every time the mercury dips above 0 and the roads are relatively snow/ice free?


I would say maybe stabilize your gas? I know my bike does not run as smoothly on stabilized gas, so I guess that would have to be a judgment call on your part.

I guess another idea would be to try and keep your fuel tank as full as possible.

I know Battery Tender brand 'smart chargers' come with a 'plug-in' connector cable. It probably wouldn't hurt to get one and use the connector cable. That way, all you do is 'plug-in' your smart charger to the connector cable that you install on your bike, rather than fumble around with awkward battery clips to connect and disconnect it.

I have the 'AC outlet brick' style Battery Tender that I bought online for around 25~30 bucks. I've never regretted it.

Sam


View PostBurnoutZX12R, on Oct 23 2006, 04:52 PM, said:

I park it in it's spot and turn the key off.. Come spring time i turn the key on, change oil and go. Done it this way forever. Just finally had to put a new battery in this summer, it was 6 yrs old. :duno:


That is cool that has worked for you thus far. :thumbup:

Sam
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#28 User is offline   ride_there Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 06:47 PM

View PostSam Farris, on Oct 23 2006, 05:42 PM, said:

I would say maybe stabilize your gas? I know my bike does not run as smoothly on stabilized gas, so I guess that would have to be a judgment call on your part.

I guess another idea would be to try and keep your fuel tank as full as possible.


Sam





What kind of stabilizer did you use?

Add Seafoam it is multipurpose, one of which is stabilizing fuel amoung many others. If your bike does not run better with it in the gas, there must be something wrong with it.
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#29 User is offline   Crash Inc. Icon

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 07:10 PM

View PostSam Farris, on Oct 23 2006, 05:42 PM, said:

I would say maybe stabilize your gas? I know my bike does not run as smoothly on stabilized gas, so I guess that would have to be a judgment call on your part.

I guess another idea would be to try and keep your fuel tank as full as possible.
...

Sam



Smart Charger, I already own, I think I could make a 'reverse cigarette lighter' hookup for it. That way I just plug and charge.

As to stabilizing ... I run 100+ Octane gas (it's been remapped, and tuned for it, along with the gas -- most of it was done before I owned the bike, and I just abused it running high octane.) I'm aware that the gas I run is low-lead. Question is, do I still need to stabilize? From what I remember from an ASE class, the problem with stored fuel is that ethanol blends tend to start separation within 2 weeks, and will destabilize and become (more or less) kerosine in the course of a winter (3-5 months), with a very volatile and corrosive 'upper layer' that is pretty much just alcohol and moisture absorbed from the air. So, with lead gas, no Ethanol is added, and I like to keep the tank topped off -- would stabilizer still be necessary? I think, in the course of a winter, I'll circulate at least 3 tanks of fuel...
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#30 User is offline   Sam Farris Icon

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 06:15 PM

View PostCrash Inc., on Oct 23 2006, 08:10 PM, said:

Smart Charger, I already own, I think I could make a 'reverse cigarette lighter' hookup for it. That way I just plug and charge.

As to stabilizing ... I run 100+ Octane gas (it's been remapped, and tuned for it, along with the gas -- most of it was done before I owned the bike, and I just abused it running high octane.) I'm aware that the gas I run is low-lead. Question is, do I still need to stabilize? From what I remember from an ASE class, the problem with stored fuel is that ethanol blends tend to start separation within 2 weeks, and will destabilize and become (more or less) kerosine in the course of a winter (3-5 months), with a very volatile and corrosive 'upper layer' that is pretty much just alcohol and moisture absorbed from the air. So, with lead gas, no Ethanol is added, and I like to keep the tank topped off -- would stabilizer still be necessary? I think, in the course of a winter, I'll circulate at least 3 tanks of fuel...


Insofar as a fuel stabilizer’s ability to inhibit alcohol (ethanol) separation from gasoline, to me, is an unknown. As already covered, I do know it helps to ‘lock’ in the higher volatility hydrocarbon chains that facilitate engine start-up. Alcohol, being a high-volatility compound, may benefit from the stabilizer; I just don’t know.

In regard to ethanol alcohol separating from gasoline, it is my understanding a fair amount of water must be present in the alcohol/fuel for this to happen. Alcohol mixes well with gasoline. Alcohol also mixes well with water. As we all have probably experienced, water and gas do not mix at all. Alcohol acts like a ‘wetting’ agent and allows the water to then mix into the fuel. It takes a lot of water mixed with the alcohol to then bring the alcohol out of the fuel solution (alcohol has a greater affinity to water than it does to gasoline). Maybe if the fuel is stored in a very large vessel in comparison to the volume of fuel stored, condensation may be able to bring the water percentage up high enough such that separation becomes a very real problem.

Here are some links I found that may be of interest.

This is about fuel deterioration and long-term storage issues
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/f...detecting.shtml

This link that talks about stabilizer and what it does (not very technical)
http://www.virginiaw..._stabilizer.asp

A link about fuels with ethanol and also about storage and fuel degradation
http://www.maxrules.com/fixgas.html

This talks about alcohol as a gas-line antifreeze
http://www.tegger.co...as-line-af.html


FWIW, I would think, in your situation (3 tanks/winter) as long as you keep your tank topped-off best you can, you probably should not need a stabilizer.

Sam

BTW, congrats on your engagement!
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